the top 30% (written in brown color) is the previous writing

from the previous post

but the bottom 70% is the new writing

that is hugely updated and added on

based on the top 30% content

after watching over countless number of engine versus engine matches

for so many years

I have come to the conclusion as follows

this is the opinion and the observation I made

the whole writing regards the TC of a match

the top 30% (written in brown color) is the previous writing

from the previous post

but the bottom 70% is the new writing

that is hugely updated and added on

based on the top 30% content

after watching over countless number of engine versus engine matches

for so many years

I have come to the conclusion as follows

this is the opinion and the observation I made

the whole writing regards the TC of a match

***

***

the TC setting is not common

under winboard

I set the TC 6/60

that is 6 moves per 60 seconds

so I thought there should be 6 moves made per minute

but that's not it is working

and the actual TC became much longer

so the 100 or so rounds of super long TC was actually even longer

than I thought and anticipated

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Nxe4 6. d4 b5 7. Bb3 d5 8. dxe5 Be6 9. Nbd2 Nc5 10. c3 d4 11. Bxe6 Nxe6 12. cxd4 Ncxd4 13. a4 Bb4 14. axb5 Nxf3+ 15. Nxf3 axb5 16. Rxa8 Qxa8

17. Ng5 {+0.43/24} Nxg5 {-0.72/26} 18. Bxg5 {+0.43/21} h6 {-0.80/26}

that's the first 2 moves (4 plies)

H and SF made

but the thing about TC is

when I set 6/60

it is supposed to be 6 moves per minute

but that's not the way it works

after the opening book is used

from the move # 17

one engine has 3 minutes to play only for 2 plies

so SF made only 2 plies for 3 minutes

and H made only 2 plies for 3 minutes

and both engines just spent 6 minutes only to make 2 moves

then from the move number 19

they are given 1 minute for 6 moves

so the actual TC was so much longer than 10 seconds per move

the actual TC on average is something longer than 10 sec per move

*

and the following is the found solution

to solve that above issue

I found a new TC

***

update:

the beta version of winboard 4.70 GUI

is winboard master-20130201

under this beta WB GUI

I tested that 6/60 works fine

both engines are given 1 min to start

and they have 60 sec for 6 moves

but under the complete build of WinBoard-4.7.0 (non beta version)

the TC works differently

I found this amazing thing out

under this non-beta WB GUI

6/60 works differently from the TC under beta WB

like mentioned above

so if I do the super long TC again

I'll use incremental TC

that is 1 min is given to start

then 9 sec are added per move

that should be approx same as 10 sec per move

***

***

the new content update:

(continued from the above post)

after testing for various TCs under the various circumstances

I found out that the above content written in brown

is not that correct

and that brown content contains many errors

so I did a lot of test runs

then I came up with the following corrections

and also improvements upon the current settings

the new content update:

(continued from the above post)

after testing for various TCs under the various circumstances

I found out that the above content written in brown

is not that correct

and that brown content contains many errors

so I did a lot of test runs

then I came up with the following corrections

and also improvements upon the current settings

running engine matches

and engine tourneys for so many years

I almost never used

long TC

also never used incremental TC

for many years

I almost always used rapid TC

something like 1 sec per move

***

and using incremental TC

and long TC is like a new area

that should be studied in depth

and I found out the intricate and complex nature

behind long TC and incremental TC

***

update:

for the super long TC tourney

in the rating list

I set the TC 6/60

I thought

that is 6 moves per 60 seconds

but the actual time required was a lot longer than

6 moves per 60 sec

*

then I tried to change the TC

to incremental TC

and the new incremental TC I used was

1 min is given to both engines

then 9 sec per move

but even this incremental TC

is not what I intended

the actual time needed for both engines

was a lot longer than the average of 10 sec per move

***

update:

I found out the complex nature behind

these long TC and incremental TC

and I think I found out how they work

*

the 6/60 TC is tricky to use

(6 moves per 60 sec)

and I can't get the exact TC I want

*

also if I use the incremental TC

1 min is given to both engines

then 9 sec per move

I thought if I use this TC

then on average, the TC should be

approx 10 sec per move

*

but the book depth is 16

I found out that

even when the book move is done

when a move is done from the book

the engines gain increment

so 16 moves from the book * 9 sec per move

= 144 sec

plus the initial 1 min

so, 144 s + 60 s = 204 s

so the engine uses a lot more time

then 10 sec per move

since from the move number 17

they already have 204 sec to begin with

so 1 min is given to both engines

then 9 sec per move

should be changed to

something like

1 min is given

then 7 sec per move

(if we assume the average match length is 60 moves)

then it will be comparable to

10 sec per move

***

for the 6/60 TC

6 moves per 60 sec

book depth is 16

so 6 moves * 2

then 2 min were added

and they start with 1 min

so they already have 3 min

and 6 * 3 = 18

18-16 = 2

they only have 2 moves left

for 3 min

that was the reason why

the engines started with 3min

then they spend total of 6 min

only to make 2 moves (4 plies)

cuz the moves made from the opening book

were counted

***

update:

so, to get the desired TC

I chose another kind of TC

fixed time per move

that is max of 10 sec per move

the only issue with this TC is

the engines usually have time forfeit a lot

when I tested with 1 sec per move

so autoflag is turned off

so the TC will be 10 sec per move

(max of 10 sec per move)

with autoflag off

***

update:

I started the tourney with this new TC

(fixed time per move)

and when many matches are done

(it will take about 1 day

to do 40 rounds

so it will take a few days in total)

I'll post the tourney result

and this entire writing on various TCs

(about the experiments on TCs)

at the same time

*

I think some engines are not time forfeit proof

that is

for some engines

since they don't have the strong functionality

when they have time forfeit

when they go over the time limit

the engines just become malfuctioning

but for the most recent engines

they come with the time forfeit proof function

so they will not be malfuctioning

even when they go over time limit

so the fixed time per move: 10 sec

should be flawless and perfect

also after watching some matches

this fixed time TC looks flawless

***

update:

all the matches will be only done under this new TC

that is fixed time per move

the reason being

I have watched and analyzed countless number of long TC matches

for so many years

and I have come to the conclusion that

some engines think (calculate) for a short amount of time

(= if they have total of 1 hour to think

they only use 40 minutes of 1 hour

they don't even use 20 minutes)

while other engines think for a long time

(if they are given with 1 hour

they use most of that 1 hour)

we can say it is those engines' decision

that they didn't use up all the time allocated and given

maybe the time management is not done well

for those engine

since they only use less than 70% of all the time given

*

I have seen a case like the following case so many times for many years

engine A and B are both 2000 elo strong in rapid TC

but A spends only 70% of the given time

when B uses up almost 100% of the given time

in the rapid TC

like 1 sec per move (60/60)

or 60 moves per 1 min

their elo ratings are same (2000 elo)

since even if A uses a lot less time than B

in a rapid

using a few seconds less doesn't make a big difference in performance

or the searched depths

so the moves found and produced are not that penalized and lowered in quality

even if A uses 30% less time than B does

but when those engines A and B fight

in a long TC

like 2 hours per each (4 hours per round)

using 30% less time can produce a significant different result and the elo rating

so in a long TC

B's elo is 2100

when A's elo is 2000

(but both engines' elo ratings are exactly same in a rapid TC)

*

one example is

houdini 3 uses about 70% of the given time

while SF (the newest SF version) uses almost 100% of the given time

their rapid ratings are almost same

but their long TC ratings are different

(SF is about 50 elo higher)

I thought this is cuz

SF can search very deep (deeper than houdini does)

since SF can search selectively

SF's selectiveness is very high

SF is a fast searcher

but now I think that

SF's elo becomes 50 higher than houdini's elo

cuz SF uses all of 2 hours

(the total match time is about 4 hours for the usual long TC)

while houdini only uses 1 hour and 20 minutes

this is what I observed

also this is what was observed by so many other ppl

*

there are many engines which don't use 100% of the given time

they only use 70% of all the time given

I have seen so many engines like these

maybe they have to change the time management function

but until the time management function is changed

I can do the correction

if I only run engine matches

in the fixed time per move

this kind of problem is resolved

I watched over many matches to confirm this theory

if I set the TC "fixed time per move: 10 (10 or any other numbers)"

when the TC is "fixed time per move:10"

and let's say engine A and B had 100 rounds

and 1 round was 60 moves long on average

so there are 2 plies x 60 moves = 120 plies made per round

and there are 100 rounds

100 rounds * 120 plies = 12,000 = 12k

there are 12k plies (half moves) made during the 100 rounds

all 12,000 plies are made and chosen after using 10 seconds

even if the board position is super simple to solve

the engines only use 10 sec for all those 12,000 situations

all of 12,000 plies were made after using the full 10 sec

so it will be fair

and the elo ratings should be more accurate

*

for SF Nov 11 vs Houdini 3

under the conventional TC

(such as certain number of moves per certain time,

like 60/60, or incremental TC)

the rapid TC elo ratings are almost same

but the long TC ratings are different

60 elo is higher for SF

*

for SF Nov 11 vs Houdini 3

under the "fixed time per move"

the rapid TC elos are almost same

and the prediction is

the long TC elos should be almost same

*

it is just like the university exams

when the exam time is 2 hours

some students finish their exams only in 1 hour

then leave the room

while others use up all of their 2 hours

and those early leavers usually get less scores

we can say

it's their fault to leave early and not using 100% of the given time

but we can't say

the early leavers are less smart than other ppl who stay in the room until the bell rings

let's say there are 2 students

and they are exactly same in intelligence and IQ and the knowledge they possess

if A leaves the room only in 1 hour

and B leaves the room after spending all of the 2 hours

B gets considerably a better score and a higher result

in this case, we can say

it is A's fault that he left the room early

but we can't say

B is smarter and more intelligent than A

cuz they are equal in the abilities and competence

***

and I want to count only those matches

which are done under the same fair condition

that is

all the engines should spend the exact same amount of time

no less, no more

that is the reason why

all the matches will be only done

under this "fixed time per move"

*

let's assume there is a boxing match

players A and B are playing

and when A is knocked down

the referee gives up to 10 sec for A to rise up

whereas when B is knocked down

the referee only gives up to 7 sec for B to get up

I don't want the discrepency between the two to exist

I want both to have the same amount of time

that is 10 sec

*

in conclusion

some engines over 3100 elo have time management issue

they don't use 100% of the given time

they only spend 70~80% of the given time

for these engines

we need something

I will only run the engine matches under "fixed time per move"

it is just a fun fact that

some engines over 3100 elo make simple mistakes and weak moves at the ending

I have seen many times that

some engines with 3100 elo or higher make beginner's mistakes

and for these engines

we need something

we need TBs

when we assign and allocate the exact same amount of time for both black and white

for the whole one match

why not assign the exact same amount of time per move (for all the moves)?

wouldn't it be better and a good idea if all the moves are made for the exact same amount of time?

from this reasoning and notion

all the matches will be run and done

under the fixed time per move TC