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descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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Depth analysis and comparison of the following engines (uncompressed):
komodo 9.3 64bit
Synapse RZ4.94 64bit
stockfish 15120212 x64

To decompress the files were used:
UPX EasyGUI for komodo 9.3
and
Reverse engineering programs for Synapse RZ4.94 protected with Themida.

Results:

Synapse RZ4.94 64bit.exe

SHA256: 3057dcae89cef5c2dbc5e36d0428c281e8b51f265dbd641fa62758601bcce580

PE header basic information
Target machine x64
Compilation timestamp 2015-12-02 16:39:03
Entry Point 0x000301E4
Number of sections 8

PE sections
Name Virtual address Virtual size Raw size Entropy MD5
.text 4096 722824 722944 6.73 24720ac00530b1a8fbfd36ef0abdea5f
.rdata 729088 94394 94720 5.66 b86c6e7715eeba0d60ca0abc251fefad
.data 827392 9772352 1147904 5.81 ae2cffe167dbc36f337f0058aa430b8b
.pdata 10600448 27912 28160 5.81 f7e46fd20b7d82a7ee4ee9f7c25274c4
text 10629120 702 1024 4.17 2451468670ab0fa8e1f1d70f20664c5d
data 10633216 6672 7168 6.46 d17a6dac1dccb63f12198166456174f4
.rsrc 10641408 504 512 4.88 1c69f0268896ce741aa924eef30787f6
.reloc 10645504 21804 22016 1.57 e7da5211f9ae3c571f0fba8e6361db98

PE imports
[+] KERNEL32.DLL
[+] msvcrt.dll

ExifTool file metadata
MIMEType
application/octet-stream

Subsystem
Windows command line

MachineType
AMD AMD64

FileTypeExtension
exe

TimeStamp
2015:12:02 17:39:03+01:00

FileType
Win64 EXE

PEType
PE32+

CodeSize
815872

LinkerVersion
10.0

EntryPoint
0x301e4

InitializedDataSize
9926144

SubsystemVersion
5.2

ImageVersion
0.0

OSVersion
5.2

UninitializedDataSize
0


komodo-9.3-64bit.exe

SHA256: 7084055fbf6a8f089073c94631e7faac77ffb570672c01a9d57d7de62f9d72d7

PE header basic information
Target machine x64
Compilation timestamp 2015-11-25 02:07:20
Entry Point 0x000014E0
Number of sections 9

PE sections
Name Virtual address Virtual size Raw size Entropy MD5
.text 4096 806260 806400 6.05 79269f229ead9e5a7a01f31329ad3a83
.data 811008 79440 79872 3.25 da225a32edc4b00616d0591081698275
.rdata 892928 890624 890880 3.09 89325e2a02ef692cb3979650e111a7e5
.pdata 1785856 32928 33280 5.95 cec36b03813315cf8dcd01da671a80f9
.xdata 1822720 31072 31232 4.49 05c1e0b98cdc721eef58efb12bf4965f
.bss 1855488 37585984 0 0.00 d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e
.idata 39444480 5956 6144 4.27 36bda8040703b925f827fe1f6996cff2
.CRT 39452672 112 512 0.31 8ba4c67151c15d9ba604370f5fb792c8
.tls 39456768 80 512 0.27 39c6f209c71731489a7a10164a7eed47

PE imports
[+] KERNEL32.DLL
[+] msvcrt.dll

ExifTool file metadata
MIMEType
application/octet-stream

Subsystem
Windows command line

MachineType
AMD AMD64

FileTypeExtension
exe

TimeStamp
2015:11:25 03:07:20+01:00

FileType
Win64 EXE

PEType
PE32+

CodeSize
806400

LinkerVersion
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EntryPoint
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InitializedDataSize
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SubsystemVersion
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ImageVersion
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OSVersion
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UninitializedDataSize
37586432

stockfish_15120212_x64.exe

SHA256: d41b132ae1ff1b93431bca3140e59dd81c2bca7814c48e32e8e2b76b091b5c82

PE header basic information
Target machine x64
Link date 1:00 AM 1/1/1970
Entry Point 0x00001500
Number of sections 9

PE sections
Name Virtual address Virtual size Raw size Entropy MD5
.text 4096 661888 662016 6.31 1370d88f44293b659057b518cc620e99
.data 667648 87248 87552 0.07 7b06bab1f397a5649f9b14be6a363023
.rdata 757760 68000 68096 4.14 0bce5f76beb8670c3f21e606d0b946bd
.pdata 827392 35340 35840 5.87 f8812d17a35de98587f007b7105b72e8
.xdata 864256 47920 48128 4.90 2bc96080d054040781f9a20a546b8af4
.bss 913408 5492160 0 0.00 d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e
.idata 6406144 5632 5632 4.47 1ecae538bd809c3e377427668266883c
.CRT 6414336 112 512 0.33 36cadbddb40a8afa819424d0a7bc456a
.tls 6418432 104 512 0.20 5561ce1f9132aaeeefe349c0234cb28f

PE imports
[+] KERNEL32.dll
[+] msvcrt.dll

ExifTool file metadata
MIMEType
application/octet-stream

Subsystem
Windows command line

MachineType
AMD AMD64

TimeStamp
0000:00:00 00:00:00

FileType
Win64 EXE

PEType
PE32+

CodeSize
662016

LinkerVersion
2.25

FileTypeExtension
exe

InitializedDataSize
908288

SubsystemVersion
5.2

EntryPoint
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OSVersion
4.0

ImageVersion
0.0

UninitializedDataSize
5492224

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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I am sure all the above means something to many (above my old head). However it would seem that it is not possible to obtain this engine anywhere, so really
the question is what is the point of the post?

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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@mist wrote:
I am sure all the above means something to many (above my old head). However it would seem that it is not possible to obtain this engine anywhere, so really
the question is what is the point of the post?


My hobby is to analyze everything I arouses curiosity. i have following the story of this engine called Synapse. In talkchess the authors of the komodo argue it is a clone of their engine. Many others say that is a clone of Stockfish and still others say that is a clone of Gull. I managed to get Synapse by a friend, so I just looked at the structure of the three engines and published the same to seize evidence of cloning that I, in truth at the moment and structurally, I do not see ...

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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As on one can seem to get hold of it, does it matter one way or another?

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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@mist wrote:
As on one can seem to get hold of it, does it matter one way or another?


forgive me but I did not understand your question, please help me understand what you mean ...

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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It is just you are telling us how you have run some tests on a engine which most of us are unable to get, therefore although your tests etc. may well be important to yourself
they are not much help or use to the rest of us, who cannot get the engine anyway. I hope that explains it.

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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@mist wrote:
It is just you are telling us how you have run some tests on a engine which most of us are unable to get, therefore although your tests etc. may well be important to yourself
they are not much help or use to the rest of us,  who cannot get the engine anyway. I hope that explains it.


ok, now I understand perfectly!
Thank you for your opinion.
thumb up

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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So what is the result?
Is it clone of another best engine or is it really original?

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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@nitewalker wrote:
So what is the result?
Is it clone of another best engine or is it really original?


sim version 3
------ Stockfish 021215 64 SSE4.2 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0) ------
60.52  Stockfish 6 64 POPCNT (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
59.10  Sugar v4.2 x64 SSE4.2 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
55.96  Stockfish 2.1 JA 64bit (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
55.34  Sting SF 4.8.2 64bit (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
55.00  Protector 1.8.0 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
52.67  Rybka DR41SSE42x2 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
52.40  Protector 1.7.0 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
52.16  Houdini 4 x64 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
51.89  Critter 1.6a 64-bit (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
51.83  Alfil 15.04 x64 C# (beta-24) (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
51.80  Komodo 9.3 64-bit  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
51.65  Gull 3 x64 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
51.27  Strelka 5.7 MP (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
51.09  Fire 4.0 x64 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
50.86  IPPOLIT 0.080a (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
50.81  Synapse RZ4.94 64bit  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
50.72  Firenzina 2.3.1 xTreme x64 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
50.70  Senpai 1.0 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
50.64  Equinox 3.20 x64mp (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
50.46  Rybka 3  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
50.23  Naum 4.6 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
50.00  IvanHoe-Beta 999946h6 x64 (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)

I can not say for sure if it's completely original or if it is inspired by other engines. the data show that it is definitely not a simple clone ...
In the file .exe, also, are included the  data encrypted of the recipient of the engine and if you try to edit the file it is not working.

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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Having spent many hours studying the unpacked file of this mysterious engine called synapse I can finally say with certainty what it is.
It comes as a stand-alone .exe file, and corresponds to a chess engine in UCI form, and so far nothing strange or new. But how does? is an original engine? these questions I can finally give a definite answer, but before i must mentioning two old programs: Triplebrain and Chesscombi.
Synapse is in fact the result of the evolution of these programs, is the result of the combination of two other chess engines that, depending on the choices of programmers, takes on characteristics similar to this and that engine.
The very news is that the engine is delivered to the user in the final version, so already set, no need to "mount" each time as to chesscombi.
Analyzing the file emerges a sort of hybrid code, my opinion is that programmers use systems capable not only to unite but also to make compatible and perfectly coexisting two different chess engines in one.
The first part of the file is represented by engine "main". The second part of the file is represented by engine "secondary" more the part that manages the entire file and allows it to function properly.
According to Alejandro Torres, "Synapse uses ideas of engines freely distributed."
....closed story for me!

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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@Alexa1978 wrote:
Having spent many hours studying the unpacked file of this mysterious engine called synapse I can finally say with certainty what it is.
......................................
According to Alejandro Torres, "Synapse uses ideas of engines freely distributed."
....closed story for me!


thumb up
Interesting response.
The imagination has his ways...

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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This program is protected with Themida, to open it takes only Reverse engineering programs. A once opened (which is not easy) the file as I wrote shows three sectors. I recently had the version Deep Synapse 4.8. In the first sector there is about 95% of the Stockfish code, in the second sector Houdini 3 (in turn protected). how it run I do not know, but the fact is that they are two engines in one file.
If someone expert in Reverse Engineering wants the file, write to me privately and I'll pass the file as I was given.

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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@velmarin wrote:


thumb up
Interesting response.
The imagination has his ways...


You who are a programmer can understand the differences that are included in these data. If you want to try, i can send you the file ...

Nombre: Deep Synapse RZ4.8 64bit.exe

Looking detalles
https://www.virustotal.com/es/file/4c76a641c8fea388817c66a7533a59ba4419ee9dad5e5613c25ed732a7cf8250/analysis/


ExifTool file metadata

MIMEType
application/octet-stream

Subsystem
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MachineType
AMD AMD64

FileTypeExtension
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TimeStamp
2015:11:01 14:37:46+01:00

FileType
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PEType
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CodeSize
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LinkerVersion
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EntryPoint
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InitializedDataSize
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SubsystemVersion
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ImageVersion
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OSVersion
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UninitializedDataSize
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Nombre: stockfish_16020722_x64.exe

Looking detalles
https://www.virustotal.com/es/file/61af599e515c915bcfe5f5b4fd2508361e25268c70583bbeaee3083e8ef16fd4/analysis/

ExifTool file metadata

MIMEType
application/octet-stream

Subsystem
Windows command line

MachineType
AMD AMD64

FileTypeExtension
exe

TimeStamp
0000:00:00 00:00:00

FileType
Win64 EXE

PEType
PE32+

CodeSize
657920


LinkerVersion
2.25

EntryPoint
0x1500

InitializedDataSize
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SubsystemVersion
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ImageVersion
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OSVersion
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UninitializedDataSize
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The engine play as Stockfish 100%, but the file also contains another engine. What do you want that i am imagining? The other engine is in the file!!!

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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Read here:
http://talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59634

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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@Graham Banks wrote:


I am in 101% agreement with Mark Lefler, but I need to understand what makes us a second engine in the exe file!

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptySimilar03 outcome

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Here by a test i ran with sim03-tool and both engines Komodo 9.3 and Synapse RZ5.31.

Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse 27-3-210

It's a tool downloaded from Komodo site itself. I wonder why Mark Lefler doesn't post these results himself?
Just claiming that ... isn't good enough for me.

54.15% similarity doesn't proof to me those engines are "clones". I believe that the outcome had to be > 65% to claim such a thing.
I believe Stockfish has an higher percentage to Komodo than Synapse has so ...?

With regards,

Last edited by FlyingDutchman on Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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Alexa1978 and I went the executable, thank you.

I've done the test and I get a derivative of Stockfish...

Code:

C:\sim03>sim -r 1

sim version 3
------ Deep Synapse RZ4.8 64bit (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0) ------
 59.89  Stockfish 7 64 POPCNT (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 58.51  Stockfish 6 64 POPCNT (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 49.61  Komodo 9.2 64-bit  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)


C:\sim03>

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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@velmarin wrote:
Alexa1978 and I went the executable, thank you.

I've done the test and I get a derivative of Stockfish...

Code:

C:\sim03>sim -r 1

sim version 3
------ Deep Synapse RZ4.8 64bit (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0) ------
 59.89  Stockfish 7 64 POPCNT (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 58.51  Stockfish 6 64 POPCNT (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)
 49.61  Komodo 9.2 64-bit  (time: 100 ms  scale: 1.0)


C:\sim03>



ok we agree. But the fact is that the engine "derivative Stockfish" in this case occupies only 35% of the entire file exe. Now the remaining 65% what is it? Have you unpacked the whole file? If you are, then you can confirm that there is code of at least another engine? If you have not done, or if you can not do it sends the file to anyone able to say with certainty what is the remaining 65%. All tests done show that the engine Synapse plays and reveals characteristics of this engine occupying 35% of the file. So my conclusion was to say that it is kind chesscombi or similar program...
Expect your reply!

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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Please place a link to Synapse RZ4.94 ( or higher ) .

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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@WarMaster wrote:
Please place a link to Synapse RZ4.94 ( or higher ) .


Previous links were removed by moderation, so why ask under those circumstances?

descriptionComparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse EmptyRe: Comparison between last versions of Komodo-Stockfish-Synapse

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