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descriptionSicilianHit4.10.CTG EmptySicilianHit4.10.CTG

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From Goldminer_999's observations as well as others in the computer chess community, it is my duty to disclose information to Chess2U.

A comparison was conducted between 2 very popular commercial computer chess opening books:

Sicilian Hit v4.10.CTG [Author: The Sicilian Team]
1337chess PRO v7.ctg [Author: Michael Wagner]


I have run a books test and compared the opening main lines the 2 books for myself.

The following information falls directly in line with concerns of the computer chess community below:

For the main B90 line,  Sicilian Hit 4.10 has weightings adjusted and moves marked green so that it plays exactly the same main line as 1337 Pro v7 right up to move 33.

It is only at move 34 that Sicilian Hit 4.10 plays a different main line move and then carries on with this line through to move 48.  

There are 3 possible ways this could happen. I won't cast aspersions but sharing this for everyone to be aware and draw your own conclusions:

1) Complete Coincidence

2) Book has been compiled using  exactly the same set of source games (eg. same playchess games over the same period) and then hand tuned after move 33 to find winning line.

3) Book has used a copy of 1337 Pro v7 as a starting point and has then hand tuned a better line after move 33, hence the wins.


The purpose of the thread is to compare the Sicilian  Team's book, Sicilian Hit 4.10.ctg against Michael Wagner's book, 1337chess PRO v7. In light of some recent accusations on other forums, I open this thread objectively to Chess2U so that you, the Chess2U Member can do you're own research and draw your own conclusions.

Thank you.

Last edited by VocalTechnique on Wed Jun 04, 2014 2:29 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Adjustment to message to better reflect its purpose. Title change.)

descriptionSicilianHit4.10.CTG EmptyGossip, envy or proper investigation.

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Dear,

Seems you think you're the the conscience of this forum now a days.

Saying:
"it is my duty to disclose information to Chess2U".

"Plagiarism is a disease that destroys any incentive for creativity and innovation. It will bury computer chess for those who enjoy it if we don't become aware that it is indeed a problem. Please support hard, honest work and give credit to those whom/who deserve it."

So probably you can proof you have bought both book legally for you're testing? For me using illegally obtained commercial books is a real thread to computer chess.

Please give us the version dates of those books compared, so we can check for our self the facts.

Just a statement ain't enough for me.

btw Why could it not be the other way around. For instance Michael Wagner adjusted his book by analyzing other books.
Let it be clear I don't think all bookmakers involved here has done such a thing.

Just picking the main line of the most played B90 variant, will show similarity in more books I think.
Have you checked Hiarcs for instance and if it has also some similar green marking on that line also, does that proof that they are also wrong to you're opinion?

Regards,

FlyingDutchman aka Victorious (PCC) book testing member of Sicilian Team.

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Email all of your complaints directly to the following:

Michael Wagner at mw1q1q@Yahoo.com
Goldminer_999 at https://www.chess2u.com/u2273

descriptionSicilianHit4.10.CTG EmptyRe: SicilianHit4.10.CTG

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Hmmm. Thought you posted this thread. Now you're saying "Please don't shoot the messenger...".

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Thesicilian+8.rar


4shared.com/rar/Q7fM98za/Thesicilian8.html date 2011 3 years

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i know gold miner from many years he use to give all commercial product to all for free in all forum

he think he help others but what about original creator!!

Plagiarism is a disease that destroys any incentive for creativity and innovation. It will bury computer chess for those who enjoy it if we don't become aware that it is indeed a problem. Please support hard, honest work and give credit to those whom/who deserve it.



this line goes for him directly





now i come to the point
first of all vocal you know our book play in pcc daily 10-12 tester daily and we are working on b90 as our main line from last 2-3 years and our book is based on all pcc games and self tunning

now i come to your 3 point
3) Book has used a copy of 1337 Pro v7 as a starting point and has then hand tuned a better line after move 33, hence the wins.

i request even Michael Wagner to see this issue and comment

dont compair illegal book


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VocalTechnique wrote:
Email all of your complaints directly to the following:

Michael Wagner at mw1q1q@Yahoo.com
Goldminer_999 at https://www.chess2u.com/u2273


You may direct all of your inquires to Michael Wagner at the above email address, or at his chess2u account:

Alias: 1337chess
Profile: https://www.chess2u.com/u2603

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you said its your duty  to disclose information to Chess2U

you should have mailed him directly

and vocal please dont use or compair illegal book because i know you have'nt buy

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Michael Wagner wrote:
Hi,

Thanks for your concern. I probably won't disclose on how I deal with these issues but I can guarantee you that I track them down and minimize these fakes,clones and leaks as much as possible. I also do it very efficiently that the book hasn't been actually fully "leaked". Also I can guarantee you that the books are original and strive to get the strongest and latest novelty lines as possible. And I have been tuning and making these opening books since 2009.

Regards,
Michael

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Michael Wagner wrote:

   Greetings,

   Here is another book update:
   **************

   7z Archive Pass: ***************

   No space on the passwords. This includes new counter lines for black on d45-d46 opening lines. And extended lines c84-c89 openings
    by black. Also new novelty lines on be2 f3 b90 mainlines for white.

   You'll receive updates again in a few days, have a nice day.

   Regards,
   Michael

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VocalTechnique wrote:
Michael Wagner wrote:

   Regards,
   Michael



This only shows us that someone (could be you) buys a legal copy of Michael Wagner book (which is great thing to do).

Because you post this thread I hold you responsible for it's contents and adress directly to you.

I've seen no proof that the "Sicilian Hit" book you're refering to is an original (legally bought) book.
You don't show any confirmation mail of that...

It could be any book in which Michael Wagner's book is imported to and made some manual markings in it and then renamed it to Sicilian Hit book.
So this could be an attempt from Goldminer or you to give the Sicilian Team a bad name.

Our team has 2 very capable bookmakers who don't need an other book to make a book of their own.

You should think first before you make such unfounded accusations on this forum...

Regards,

Flying Dutchman aka Victorious

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@FlyingDutchman wrote:
I've seen no proof that the "Sicilian Hit" book you're refering to is an original (legally bought) book.


You're right, I have absolutely no idea if your Sicilian Hit 4.10 ctg book is original or not.

My question is this:

If you are so worried that someone plagiarized your book, why not contact the author directly?  thumb up 

@FlyingDutchman wrote:
So this could be an attempt from Goldminer or you to give the Sicilian Team a bad name.


Just because I may bring up a sensitive subject does not mean I am trying to defame you at all.  think 

I know the Sicilian Team well. You make incredible books for the computer chess enthusiast! clap 

However when the author of 1337 chess brings his own concerns to the table and I just bought the book fairly, you should be made ready to defend your stance objectively without any personal emotion.

That is what I did, I brought it to the table so that those who are curious may compare for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

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VocalTechnique wrote:

If you are so worried that someone plagiarized your book, why not contact the author directly?  thumb up .


Hmmm, now I can't follow you with what you mean by that.

We never stated that Michael Wagner would plagiarize our book so why should we contact him about that?!?
It was you're post / thread that accused us from plagiarizing Michael Wagner's book.

If you are referring to Goldminer as an author then I think that's a waist of our time...

VocalTechnique wrote:

However when the author of 1337 chess brings his own concerns to the table


I've not seen a statement of Michael Wagner accusing us plagiarizing his book nor has he contacted us directly to express his concerns about that.
I think he is more concerned about his book being freely distributed on some forum where you're friend Goldminer resides.

Regards,

FlyingDutchman aka Victorious

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